Say More! Boomers, Benders and Bare Skin

In this lively episode, Foster and Cesar introduce a soul-bearing conversation game that fast-tracked their emotional intimacy. With thought-provoking and hilarious questions, they reveal unexpected truths, from childhood food obsessions to spontaneous skinny-dipping stories. Along the way, they explore deep themes like healing through food, navigating anxiety, and the generational shifts in values.
 
In this episode, they explore: 

• The surprising reason Cesar used to eat half a cheesecake for dessert
• Foster’s TSA nightmare: how a can of chickpeas got her stuck at security
• Navigating generational differences—are Boomers misunderstood?
• How Foster’s dad was a radical sex-ed advocate in the '70s
• The ultimate takeaway—why curiosity is more powerful than judgment in relationships

Also mentioned:

The powerful documentary The Work by Jairus McLeary and Gethin Aldous.

If this episode spoke to you, you will love The Beauty of Letting Go where we explore how control is an illusion. You can also watch the episodes on YouTube.

If you enjoyed this episode, take a moment to follow Beauty in the Break on your favorite podcast app and leave a review—it really helps!

Reach out to the show—send an email or voice note to beautyinthebreakpod@gmail.com and be sure to follow on Instagram. 

Cesar Cardona:

• Attend his upcoming speaking engagements
• Listen to music from Cesar + The Clew on Apple Music and Spotify
• Receive his monthly newsletter Insights That Matter

Foster Wilson:

• Buy her poetry book Afternoon Abundance
• Learn about her postpartum services
• Receive her monthly newsletter Foster’s Village

Created & Hosted by: Cesar Cardona and Foster Wilson

Executive Producer: Glenn Milley

Editor: Bessie Fong

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Beauty in the Break.

I'm Foster.

And I'm Cesar.

This is the podcast where we explore the moments that break us open and how we find beauty on the other side.

So whatever you're carrying today, you don't have to carry it alone.

We are here with you.

Thanks for being here and enjoy the show.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Beauty in the Break.

It was my turn today.

I feel like when we’re about to say something to someone.

Someone's like, so how did you two meet?

And we're both like, we turn to each other and then we smile.

And my eyes are like, go.

You do it.

You do it.

And then to me, you're like, go ahead.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Today on the show, we're going to play a game, which we play quite a lot.

Do you want to play a game?

It's a question game.

And there's just really deep, interesting questions that we pull a card and ask each other. And learn hopefully something brand new or maybe funny.

I think it sped up the way we got to know each other because we didn't care about little details.

We cared about what do you really feel about things in the world and what's your belief system?

And yeah, supercharged our relationship, I think.

Somewhere around that time, you and I, when we couldn't be together in person, I would just flip a card, take a photo of it and send it to you.

And then we would just text it kind of back to each other.

And then around that same time, once we were getting closer and deeper into these conversations, someone said, what did she study at NYU?

And I was like, music theater?

You had no idea.

Directing?

I didn't know because this is the point.

Like, we really, I feel like this stuff, the details of what you work and all those, they're going to show up without question.

But how frequently can someone get to the deeper stuff?

Because people can just coexist.

Yeah.

And I'm not really into that.

Neither are you.

Yeah.

So that's why we like this game a lot.

We're going to play it today on the show.

It seems like it's made by millennials.

Yeah, for sure.

Because there's no losing.

There's no winning.

Yeah.

Right?

Everybody.

It's fair for everybody.

You flip the card.

And then there's lighter questions, very light questions.

Okay, medium questions.

And then like really deep, deep, deep questions.

Right?

Yeah.

So this is what we have.

We did break out those cards.

So let's say like light, medium, heavy question.

And then we'll see what we get.

All right.

What was your favorite food growing up?

How dark did we get here?

I don't know.

Well.

What does that mean?

I guess I already opened up the can of worms.

They fed me a can of worms.

Whoa.

Just kidding.

Just kidding.

Kidding.

Kidding.

My favorite meal growing up probably was pizza.

Okay.

Good.

Still your favorite meal?

I was going to tell you to ask me my favorite meal today.

Well, you do eat a lot of food from, like, you eat like a child.

Like, you do.

You eat, you're like, I would like chocolate cookies for dinner, please, and thank you.

Hot chocolate.

You get along really well with my kids because they're like, oh, Cesar, do you want, I don't know, what?

French fries for dinner?

Great.

Cesar wants French fries for dinner.

Mom, Cesar says we can have French fries for dinner.

I took them once to a fast food place, when it was just us three.

And they said, should we get something for mom?

I go, no, of course not.

You two are children.

Your mom is an adult.

I am still figuring it out.

But I also remember, because when we first met and started dating, we were, you would eat a pizza for dinner. And like half a cheesecake for dessert.

I mean, a half of a cheesecake.

An animal. I was also just getting out of a depression, but yes to that also.

And I will eat that much as a boxing trainer, as a physical person.

I will just go.

I was thoroughly impressed.

Thanks.

Well, you also said that your eating habits, you liken them to childhood because you didn't have a lot of food growing up.

There were times in your life when you didn't have a fridge full of food.

And so you take advantage of that now in adulthood.

There's a part of me that's just soothing the child in me because so many things that I wanted that I couldn't get.

And I spent a lot of time in my childhood being the mature adult, being responsible for my own self.

And now I'm in a space where I am stable financially, emotionally.

I live alone.

I can do whatever really I want.

So I'm not going to say no to the inner child until it starts to change, which it has been lately.

I've been spending more time with you.

It has got me to want to eat more healthier.

Obviously, it's a clear mind.

It's better for you and so on and so forth.

Reliving your childhood through food.

Is there healing in that?

Is there joy in that?

What do you find there?

Absolutely.

So I told my previous therapist once, I said to her, you know what?

The only thing that makes me feel rich, what rich would be to me.

And I'm not rich now.

I definitely wasn't rich. I said, being able to eat whenever you want.

And I was so proud of myself because it felt like I didn't want cars.

I didn't want clothes.

I didn't want a house or whatever.

And I was so proud of like, I just need food.

I'm good.

And she says, well, that's a, that's a, that's a necessity.

So maybe you shouldn't want just that only, you know, but yeah, it's a joy.

It's a joy.

It's a complete, absolute joy.

And I typically don't tell myself no.

And I will say it did wash itself through because now I'm thinking about alternatives, something better.

What about you?

What's your favorite food?

I grew up very health conscious.

My family was very health conscious.

We were vegetarian at the time.

My parents both became vegetarian in the 70s before they met each other and then got together and were both already vegetarians.

And so we were raised that way.

I loved warm soy milk and tofu and lots of weird hippie things at the time.

Now that's very normalized, but it's not soy milk, it's oat milk.

But yeah, I loved tofu.

I still do.

I really like healthy food.

I just honestly really like it.

But my dad really exposed me to a lot of nutrient dense veggies and good veggies and proteins.

In the same manner in which I have given myself permission for something like joyful food that maybe is not the best for you, but it invigorates me and makes me feel light and happy and free.

Do you have something like that where you give yourself an okay?

Like every full moon March, I'm going to go ahead and eat this rack of carrots.

Rack of carrots.

On the next episode of rack of carrots.

I love coffee.

I love, I know it's not food, but I indulge in coffee and lattes and vegan sushi, actually.

Avocado sushi, that kind of stuff.

I don't know.

To me, food is more utilitarian.

It's more a means to an end than it is something that I really enjoy.

And I used to say all the time, if I just eat beans out of a can and move along with my day, I would be happy.

I don't have the same kind of connotation with it, I don't think.

Beans out of a can is pretty on point considering that you got stopped at the airport because you had a can of chickpeas in your purse and they stopped you.

And then you looked at me and said, you just go ahead and keep, go ahead, go to the terminal.

I'll stay behind.

I really didn't want to give up that can of chickpeas.

I always travel with food because I don't eat much of what's served on planes, nor does it feel good in my body.

And so I pack things that I know are going to feel good.

But I did have a can of chickpeas.

It had a pop can.

It was like a whole plan.

I could just pop it open on the plane and just eat right out of it.

But security said no to that.

I feel like if there's multi-steps or something like that, TSA is going to stop you.

Yeah.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking.

And now, because of that, Foster is blacklisted for having a can of chickpeas TSA.

All right.

Next question.

Yeah, they took it from me, by the way.

That's right.

They did take it from you.

Somebody right now is enjoying those chickpeas.

I think they wanted it.

Honestly, I think they were jealous because it's not just...

It wasn't just a can.

It was sitting in a, like a nice herb oil and something that could be a whole meal.

And they didn't know that they didn't know if they should go without that.

And then we're just going to confiscate this.

I think that happens all the time, by the way.

They just like something.

We're just going to take this and don't come out of TSA, please.

Come at us.

I don't care.

What are they going to do?

Come knock on my door and pat me down?

Like what actually are they going to do?

Too many chickpeas.

Too many chickpeas.

God bless the chickpea.

All right.

Next question.

Next question.

Go medium question.

Go medium.

All right, go medium.

Yeah, we're ready. for it.

Are you ready?

Are you ready?

Have you ever gone or would you go skinny dipping?

Oh, I haven't.

I'm so lame.

I've never gone skinny dipping before.

I would though.

I feel like now it's taken, I'm 40 now.

It's taken me this many years to feel comfortable enough in my body, mind and spirit to be able to do that.

What if it's like a nude beach or if it's just like a friends party?

Oh, I don't know.

Friends.

I don't know.

Not friends.

You a nude beach.

I might just for the experience of it.

It seems very liberating.

I would say so.

In the culture of wherever we are that has a nude beach, France, I suppose.

There's got to be one somewhere hidden, like on a subreddit you can find in Southern California.

There's some, there's some, it wasn't what I know, once took a, they did their honeymoon and they went to a completely private beach in Mexico, all up and down.

They were the only ones there.

And then there were chefs cooking them food.

Other than that.

The chefs were naked?

I don't know.

I didn't ask that question but they were just the two of them and they were they were like well yeah we're just naked the whole time because why not.
 
That's true that makes sense you know what when I first moved here to Los Angeles 10 years ago 

I went to a friend's pool party at his place in West Convina

But we were friends on facebook because we were part of the same like facebook group for five years before that and we never met.

But when I announced on facebook I was moving to los angeles he was like oh come to the party and so on and so forth

Fast forward he had like a whole decked out with a big cutout of like a crescent moon 

And it was lit up and all these 

What's the thing called stop drop and repeat what is the 

Step and repeat 

That's it that's it that's it that's that and so we all 

That's it stop drop and repeat

Stop drop you roll a little get up take a picture and you take the photo right yeah

Step and repeat is like a red carpet photo thing 

Right all the photos you see red carpet so two people are standing there and so on and so forth you stop and you repeat stop and repeat 

So I went to the stop drop and repeat and I was we were by this time we were standing around and then he was a photographer too 

And by now we've been drinking a good amount and he says 
alright who wants to be naked here 

And I have no problem

First off there's a thing in LA that when people get here they immediately feel like like just let go 

You can be yourself now you can do whatever so on and so forth 

And I really really had that and I was like I'll do it.
 
Let's go fast forward to everybody was naked in the pool

In the daylight

No it was nighttime 

So it was super fun 

It was a great introduction to me 

How many people were naked in the pool?

Naked in the pool probably maybe 5 to 10 

There was about 40 people there though 

So the other people were they just weren't 

Down with it but they were still you know 

Living let live fully clothed and just watching 

All sorts of stuff 

Well that's LA for you

It was super fun.

And that was the first time.

I'm sure I did after that, but I don't remember, honestly.

I think there's something different between swimming naked in a pool and swimming naked in like, the ocean.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

The ocean's a little more romantic.

And also you're kind of, like, you could come up to your neck.

You could be fully covered.

The pool is lit up.

You could see you.

It was lit, sure.

Would you go out into the woods naked?

Would you go on a hike naked?

Where's your end point?

Because you're pretty free with your body.

You're naked. Where's your end point?

Where's your end point?

I wouldn't probably go out into the woods for it because of when I want to sit down.

I don't want all that dirt just rolling on.

It's more so just like me being.

Logistical.

Yeah, logistics.

But that's not saying no to other things.

I feel like there's got to be something cool about like a spiritual retreat where everyone's just naked.

And the conversations are typically spiritual related, deep related, body mechanics related.

You know, what are you feeling in your body here?

Probably that.

There's a part of me that, I don't know, my brain goes really far.

I don't know how much time you have here.

But some parts of me feels like, what if there's like nude concerts?

Nude concerts.

But that seems like a lot.

A lot of people jumping up and down.

What artist is going to have a nude concert?

Any Gen Zer.

Probably.

Probably.

Probably.

Billie Ellish would totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a difference between, I think, nudity as sort of a spiritual thing and nudity as an exhibitionist thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's a great point.

Apparently, those two sides of me were speaking to each other.

Oh, my God.

Only 15 minutes left?

I'm going to pull a medium question.

All right.

How would you describe your parents' generation?

Oh, man.

They were given

I'm just going to dish it.

I'm just going to dish it.

They were given a great economy.

They were told if you work hard, you will reap the benefits for it.

And on the other side of it, they weren't validated in their internal life.

They're strong willed.

That's for sure.

Super strong willed.

My parents had me when they were about 25, 26.

I cannot fathom having a child at that age.

The fact that the two of them being so opposite within each other, 

Almost never getting along and still managing to maintain parenthood at 25 years old and figuring out your life?

Nuts.

You're 35.

Yeah.

So your parents are...

They're about to be 60, both of them.

So that's...

What generation is that?

They're boomers.

They're boomers.

They're boomers.

I was trying to decide if I wanted to reveal that or not.

I wasn't too sure.

Yeah, yeah.

I would describe them like that, honestly.

And my mom and dad are just polar opposites, But you can still see the previous generation that informed how they should live in their day-to-day life.

What about you?

Same generation, boomers.

Although I think my parents were, as I mentioned, they're vegetarian, hippie kind of.

We were homeschooled.

I was homeschooled until I was 10 years old.

They were a bit rebels for their day.

My dad, for certain, in the 70s at the university, he started a whole sex ed peer-to-peer counseling service because there was nothing like that at his school.

And that was very rebellious.

He was up against systems at the time.

He was up against institutions trying to offer sex health, sexual health information to his peers.

But he and my mom were both, they were the rebels of their generation.

And now I feel like what they put into the world at that time, now that's what we take for granted in our generation.

That's the default for us.

And we're pushing the envelope in a new direction.

That's, you know, veganism is widespread in the U.S.

And all of the other things that come with that.

The height of their age was the 60s, late 60s, right?

So the other side of the boom was from mine.

Both my parents were born in like 64, 65, where yours were getting to the stage of their life where they have an output of 64, 65 and onward.

I still to this day fundamentally thank the 60s movement for majority of the stuff.

I feel like it was a small renaissance for this society, for this culture.

We can thank them for so many things of pushing the envelope, just planting the seed so the oak tree can grow.

Your parents did that.

Your pops is, at some level, he's still just naturally rebellious and not in a F the system kind of way.

It's just more like, I'm going to go my own path and figure this out.

Yeah.

And when time changes, I'm going to move on with it, which is rebelling against his actual generation anyway, because he's not being left with the times.

He's a very cool dude.

Yeah.

He's very, he's a trip.

Okay.

I'll pull the heaviest one.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Got you all in check.

Have you ever struggled with anxiety?

I actually don't think I'm a very anxious person.

You might disagree.

I'm definitely more worried than you, but I don't have clinical anxiety.

I don't have a diagnosis of that.

My father is an anxiety disorders specialist.

So I've grown up around the language of anxiety and anxiety treatment. 

Fundamentally the work my dad teaches is part of it is trying to differentiate the difference 

Between something that is a signal from our brains that there is something wrong that we need to take action on 

And something that is pure noise, which is something repetitive that there is no action to take on that.

What a brilliant distinction between the two.

Yeah.

What a great thing for somebody to want to help people discern the difference between.

Please continue.

I just love that little thought.

It's such a specific thing that makes a huge difference.

Yeah.

So many people struggle with anxiety or more generalized worry.

And I have relinquished, I think, a lot of those traits over time the last couple of decades, maybe.

What about you?

I want to just add to what you're saying is by, I don't think you're an anxious person either.

You do worry a lot more do but that's not saying much because I'm not really one to worry honestly 

But you definitely without question you want to keep tabs on almost as many things as possible and have some sort of planned response to it 

But I don't feel anxiety from you either no 

I have not struggled with anxiety 

If I do it is not physical and I say that because

I'm a sober person now but I spent the first five, six years in Los Angeles doing a lot of unhealthy substances.

And people often towards the end of their benders, for me, it would go days on end.

Towards the end of it, I would get just stricken with this electric feeling from my stomach all the way up to the back of my head.

And then I would shoot down my body.

I didn't know what that was because I'd never felt it before.

And at this time, I was doing a bunch stuff with two friends of mine 

And we're all just talking and then I got that electric shock in my body 

And I stopped them while they were speaking and said something's weird 

I don't know how to explain this and 

I went through the physical explanation and they said you're having an anxiety attack is what 

You're having your heart rate's going way up and

 I was calmer than I am now and

I said oh that's what it feels like because maybe you should go lay down

I said I'm not laying down but I'll go inside.

I go inside, close the door.

The sound of the sliding door diminished the anxiety.

And I was fascinated by that thought for five minutes.

And when I went out there to go tell them, as soon as I stepped out, the anxiety shot again.

Whoa.

And I was like, just, this is fascinating.

I never felt this before.

What this thing is.

It would happen often when I would be coming down from a four day bender of drinking and drugs and promiscuity and so on and so forth.

So then I knew what it felt like finally for once.

And then when I wasn't using, and also now that I'm sober, I don't have any of those feelings, but now I have a memory of it.

And whatever that anxiety back then would induce in my actions, since whatever's going on in your body, you know, informs your actions, I can see similar actions happening in my life sometimes while sober.

So I worked it backwards and thought to myself, I'm feeling some sort of anxious thought, but not an anxious feeling.

So the struggle I had with anxiety was really a struggle with drugs, if I may say, but not really an anxious person.

Not an anxious person, no.

I suffer from depression.

That's the trauma of the past.

Anxiety is the trauma of the future.

Okay, one final question.

Do any of your friends have beliefs or opinions that feel offensive or insulting to you?

No, not offensive, not insulting.

I have a friend who is a flat earther and a conspiracy theorist, and he's very conservative in his political beliefs.

None of those things insult me.

None of those things make me, I forget the second word was, insulted or offensive.

No, I don't get offended by that sort of stuff.

There are some times where when I see that sort of community acting out a certain way, my first thought is like, I know somebody who agrees with this.

And I'm like, all right, let's get over that.

Because anger is not going to help you with anything.

But no, I don't want to be that kind of person.

Yeah, you're really good at that.

You're able to listen to pretty much anyone's beliefs on anything.

And I think your phrase quite often is, fair enough.

Fair enough.

You believe that people can be entitled to their own opinions and beliefs, even if you disagree with all your heart.

Yeah.

Nine times out of ten, if I say fair enough, I don't agree with you.

And that's cool.

Yeah.

Also, I'm not interested in tribalism.

And I will say this, and I think we have to get around this, we have to get our heads around this sooner than later as a culture.

To understand somebody is not agreeing with them.

And if you want to get across to them, you got to understand them first.

So before you can go anywhere with trying to prove your point, 

Trying to find out why you're more accurate than they are, 

If you're trying to get that across to them, 

You got to understand where they're coming from first.

That's usually my main thing.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, there's so much of this divisiveness in the world.

We, you know, we should be fighting with the people that disagree with us.

If we come at it from compassion and see it from their point of view, we feel more connected to them, whether we believe in them, what they have to say or not.

I find most people, when they make a judgment call on someone's actions, they base it on that person's character.

This person did A because they are B.

But when people start describing their own actions, they give circumstances on why they took those actions.

That is a deep divide.

There is a beautiful movie documentary called The Work.

And I saw it at South by Southwest Film Festival like seven years ago.

And I had to sit in the booth when I watched it because I had my baby with me at the time.

And I remember sitting there watching, weeping at this documentary.

It's about men in a maximum security prison who had committed violent crimes, often sexual crimes.

And they had civilians and therapists that went in with the prisoners.

And they would all stand in a circle, little groups of 10 or 12.

And they would share very deeply and vulnerably what had happened to them, something deep in their life, both the civilians and the prisoners.

And it really laid out how similar everyone's experiences were.

And the civilians had this thought of like, wow, if that had happened to me or the similar thing happened to me in my childhood, I was one step away from being this person in prison.

And the prisoner would tell the story of their childhood of something really heinous and awful that had happened to them.

And it doesn't excuse their behavior.

It doesn't excuse what they did.

But you now have a very deep understanding of hurt people, hurt people.

It was the clearest example I've ever witnessed of that.

And I took that with me straight forward.

I highly recommend that documentary.

The work.

That's fascinating.

Yeah.

So fascinating.

These two opposite sides that are seemingly cracked between the two, broken apart, are being mended together by way of their own particular trauma.

And you can take that out into the world and go, oh, this person has made that choice for themselves and I don't agree with that.

But how can I compassionately come at that and wonder how might they have come to that decision?

I have no idea what their lived experience is.

Yeah, why be judgmental when you can be curious?

Yeah.

I feel similarly to you.

I don't think any of my friends' beliefs offend me or insult me.

I actually like having friends with very diverse beliefs about the world or opinions because it makes for very interesting conversations.

I don't want to be surrounded by people who feel exactly the same as I do all the time.

That feels boring to me.

So even you and I have fundamental beliefs and differences we have, and that makes it very interesting how we see the world.

We have so much to connect over and discuss.

That's an opportunity for me to learn.

Yeah, exactly.

And I'm after growth on this planet.

Well, this was fun.

Thanks for playing along with us.

If you have answers to these questions, we want to hear them.

I mean, skinny dipping, but also how do you feel about your friends' beliefs?

Does it make you anxious?

There's a whole lot.

There's a whole lot of answers here.

If you have answers to these questions or other questions you want us to answer, please send them to beautyinthebreakpod@gmail.com.

Thank you so much for listening with your ears and your hearts.

And as usual, please be kind to yourself.

Goodbye.

If this episode spoke to you, take a moment and send it to someone else who might need it.

That's the best way to spread these conversations to the people who need them the most.

And if you want to keep exploring with us, make sure to follow Beauty in the Break wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time.

Beauty and the Break is created and hosted by Foster Wilson and Cesar Cardona.
 
Our executive producer is Glenn Milley 

Original music by Cesar and the Clew .