Question Everything You've Inherited with Brandon Kyle Goodman

Who would you be if society never got its hands on you? In this expansive conversation, writer, actor, and host of the hilarious podcast Tell Me Something Messy Brandon Kyle Goodman joins Foster and Cesar to discuss ‘disruptive curiosity’, destigmatizing sex, and choosing to be child-free in a society that expects parenthood. Brandon opens up about their new journey on Lexapro, the healing power of talking openly about sex while working on Big Mouth, and the profound decision to not have children despite years of assuming they would. Brandon is both hilarious and wise, as they break down how to live authentically, build community, and break generational cycles by asking the questions no one else wants you to ask, like… aren’t all sports super gay?? 

In this episode they explore: 

• Why Brandon tried on heels to discover what was truly theirs vs. what was inherited
• The moment Brandon realized: "I don't want kids" (and how that broke a generational cycle)
• The difference between wanting to have kids and wanting to be a parent
• Why raising a mixed-race child as a gay couple required questions they couldn't answer

Brandon Kyle Goodman: 

• Listen to their podcast Tell Me Something Messy
• Subscribe to their Substack
• IG: @brandonkylegoodman

Also mentioned: 

• Pamela Samuelson’s Sex Ed class for tweens/teens & Take Back The Speculum: EMBODYWORK

If this episode spoke to you, you will love From Homeless to The Oscars: Dedrick Bonner on Resilience. You can also watch the episodes on YouTube.

If you enjoyed this episode, take a moment to follow Beauty in the Break on your favorite podcast app and leave a review. It really helps!

Reach out to the show! Send an email or voice note to beautyinthebreakpod@gmail.com and be sure to follow on Instagram and TikTok. 

Cesar Cardona:

• Receive his newsletter Insights That Matter
• Get guided meditation from Cesar on his website 
• Listen to music from Cesar + The Clew on Apple Music and Spotify

Foster Wilson:

• Buy her poetry book Afternoon Abundance
• Learn about her postpartum services
• Receive her newsletter Foster’s Village

Created & Hosted by: Cesar Cardona and Foster Wilson

Executive Producer: Glenn Milley

Editor: Bessie Fong 

Special Guest: Brandon Kyle Goodman

This episode is brought to you by Arlene Thornton & Associates

Transcript

You can't talk about sex without talking about who you are.
Do I want to wear heels? Do I like heels?
Try them the fuck on.
And then I was like, I don't want kids.
The parent that I want to be,
I don't have the capacity in this lifetime to be.
This is so gay.
You are all homosexual.
It's so gay.
This is so gay.
Welcome to Beauty and the Break.
Here we explore stories of how barriers are broken,
both within ourselves and within the world.
I'm Foster Wilson.
And I'm Cesar Cardona.
This is a home for you.
Questioning the rules you inherited and choosing your own path forward.
We are here with you on this messy and courageous journey.
Let's dive in.
Welcome back to Beauty and the Break.
Thank you all for being here.
Wherever you are in the world, I am pleased that you have joined us.
Welcome to the show, writer, actor, host of Tell Me Something Messy,
the podcast, Brandon Kyle Goodman.
Hi.
Hi.
It's so good to be here.
Thank you for being here today.
Oh my God.
It's so exciting.
It was so fun because we were just talking about how we were on your show not too long ago.
Yeah.
And you were so kind to do us the honor to be on our show.
Couldn't wait.
I love y'all.
So this is exciting.
Yes.
Can you tell us what is beautiful in your world today?
Oh, what's beautiful in my world today?
Transition.
I'm like in a lot of transitions in my spiritual life, in my personal life, in my career.
And I've been like, it's a storm right now, but I have found the beauty in it.
It's like, it was a lot of hard resistance definitely for the last couple months.
But now there's been a little rainbow showing up in the cloud, as my Angela likes to say.
So I think that's been beautiful.
It's like, what am I starting to learn and take away from the experiences?
How do you find that when you're still in the middle of it?
That's a great question.
I'm actually writing around that.
Like, how do you talk about being in the storm while you're inside of it?
It's a lot of spirituality for sure.
It's, you know, every morning I'm waking up meditating.
I have, you know, built out my ancestral altar.
So I have my grandmother, my great grandparents, my godfather, my godmother who are there.
And so like every morning, just kind of ringing my bell, lighting some incense and talking to
them and kind of rebuilding that connection with them has been a really big part of it.
So like not feeling alone in it, because it's a very singular transition.
And so it can feel lonely, but you realize none of, we're never alone.
There are so many people, of course, that are alive, but so many people that have passed
that are still with us, whether we know them or not.
So that's been super helpful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel like at this point in my life and maybe at this like age of our lives, we've had enough
of some of the shit that's happened before that when you're in this sort of storm now,
you know that rainbow is going to inevitably show up.
Yeah, of course.
So like your job is just to like maintain, keep your hands on the steering wheel, do the best
you can, stay steady.
To keep breathing.
I know it's going to come out on the other side.
Yes.
Evidence of your life proves you get through things.
So it's just like, we've done this.
This is different, but we've done this.
So yeah.
It's a beautiful part about being the age-ish that we all are.
I am the oldest person in the room.
But I mean, I do think that's so beautiful about aging is that we have so much experience
resilience to prove that, oh my God, I got through that and this.
This is nothing.
And this and this.
Yeah.
Perspective, hindsight.
You're like, oh, I can get through this for sure.
Resilience is something that I really appreciate about you.
First off, from the conversation that we had on your show, you talked so much about some
of the things you had to go through.
Mm-hmm.
And listening to your show in general, the stuff you have with your family and your upbringing
and whatnot, and you're just always bright still.
Yeah.
And smiling.
What was your way into that?
Oh my God.
No one's ever asked that.
What was my way into that?
The other way just was too heavy.
Do you know, at a certain point you go, okay, I can blame everybody or I can wish for a different
life or I can wish for something else, but that feels heavy.
And I think I got tired of feeling heavy.
And so it became, well, what is the other option?
And it's not just to like smile to smile or force positivity, but it really was like
a gratitude practice of being like, okay, yeah, this shit sucks.
But also like over here, hey babe, like you got a roof over your head.
Like literally some people don't like I ate three meals today.
Wow.
That's huge for some people.
That is not a thing, you know?
So even like the little things being grateful for, and then it builds.
Like I had a great conversation with a friend of mine who were like, oh my God, that cackle
that I had from watching that video.
I think so building up the gratitude allowed me to find the smiles and also expect that,
right?
Life is not going to be all smiley, but when it comes, can I savor it?
And also the solutions happen in the joy.
It doesn't mean ignore the pain, but it's like the answers aren't coming in the dark like
that.
You need some sliver of light to see a path forward.
So once I realized that that worked for me, I think it was like, oh, my commitment is to
the smile and is to the joy and is to the brightness.
And my commitment, my mom taught me this too, right?
Like when you're too focused on yourself, how can you help somebody else?
So like if you're all in your shit, go do something for somebody else.
And that's part of it too.
It's like, okay, let me be of service.
That kind of puts things into more perspective.
Right.
I love that second, that last part.
When I was spending 10 years as a boxing trainer, I would go through deep bouts of depression.
Yeah.
I had a lot of tough times going on.
I was getting out of all my old ways.
So like all the trauma was coming back up and then I would get, you know, the next two
days later, I'd have a set of clients and I would just go out and train those clients
as miserable as I was.
Yeah.
But then I'd get back home and I'd feel so much better.
Yeah.
Because I just gave them something.
Yeah.
Like serve and like give back in that way.
There's something about like the desire to isolate in those moments, which I see the isolation
and solitude are different.
Like solitude, I think it's intentional and important, but the isolation actually I think
sometimes does a disservice.
It's sometimes grief, I think is not sometimes, better in public.
Like it's better to grieve with people around you.
I don't know.
It moves it around a bit and allows you to find a little bit more of the light as opposed
to just living in the dread or being consumed by the dread.
Sometimes you have to be there for a moment, but you can't stay there.
It's not sustainable.
We're social animals as well.
I'm thinking about the Jewish tradition, sitting Shiva.
When someone passes away, everybody goes to that.
Everyone just gets together and they just feel it.
Yeah.
It's the same point to what you're saying.
And in grief too, I love this physiological thing of that, what we feel inside gets expressed
through this like physical release of tears.
And what I've read and also, I don't know, maybe just symbolically, it's like we have tears
on our face so that someone else can witness that we're in pain.
Yeah.
And can go to them and be like, oh, I see you must be in pain because otherwise they may
not know.
Yes.
It becomes all internal.
And it's, I think, important for it to come out in whatever way it comes out.
So people can connect to you.
People can show up for you.
And it's in the expression of grief.
Like you're talking about and going and, and being of service to someone else, even when
you're going through a hard time, that's part of how grief or hard times or whatever can
move through you because emotion really needs to be moved through you in your body.
Yeah.
We've lost touch with the, the ritualistic physical things of cultures that like dance a
lot and move their bodies.
We're like, we're going to sit in a room with a therapist and just talk.
And it gets so heady and intellectual.
Yeah.
We have to like move it through.
Exercise it through, move your body, dance it out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also, I want to say Lexapro.
That's part of this bright smile as well.
Wonderful.
Started like two months ago.
Yeah.
You're new to it, right?
Oh, word it.
You started writing about your journey with Lexapro.
Yeah.
My Lexapro diaries I've been starting to write about.
Yeah.
Very new.
It's basically this, this beautiful storm was amalgamating and culminating.
And my therapist was like, Ooh, there's something you might need some medication.
Which I expressed on that essay.
She's been with me for like 13 years.
And so for her to, for the first time in 13 years, mentioned meds made me go, huh?
What the?
Oh, so this might be something I need to consider.
But then I also felt an immediate shame after I got off the phone, which was shocking and unsettling
because I'm very pro meds.
I have a lot of people in my life who are on meds.
I'm always like, yes, get on your fucking meds.
But I'd never needed it for myself apart from, you know, fucking like allergy medicine.
And then I, so I wanted to like interrogate that and realize that came from my mom, that
my family had a lot of stuff around therapy and mental health and choosing religion as the solve, as opposed to understanding there might be other tools that are needed to tackle the mental well-being.
And so it was just about like Jesus and prayer and not like, oh, you might also need talk therapy.
You might also need a medication.
And so I think there was a stigma that I adopted that, oh, this makes me bad or I should be able to be resilient on my own.
And so once I realized that it wasn't mine, that it belonged somewhere else, I was able to be like, okay, let me, let me try this.
And then I was like, I usually don't like to write things until I process them fully.
But this felt important enough to be like, I'm going to process it in real time and talk about it as it's happening because I believe in it, obviously for other people.
So why not talk about it for myself?
Some of the dark things you were feeling and where you are now, can you describe what the Lexapro did for you that got you from there to there?
I can only describe it as like being in your house and everything's pitch black and like you just can't see anymore.
And you've been in the pitch black for weeks, months.
And it's like after a while you kind of start to go crazy and you don't know where anything is anymore.
And so it starts to feel hopeless.
It's like, oh, this is my life.
I'm going to be in this container in the dark and that's it.
And so it becomes hard to socialize.
It becomes hard to find joy in the things that you used to find joy in.
My friend today was like, I had a hurricane.
Now it's a tropical storm.
So this hurricane, I would say, was a couple things happening.
Whereas if it was just one, if it was just a tropical storm, I'm good at bouncing back.
But this was truly like, oh, there are things are crumbling in all sorts of pockets of my life.
And so it felt really, really dark.
And the Lexapro has just given me like a sliver of light to just be like, hey, there's your couch is right over there.
You know, like you can see like just like one foot in front of the other.
And that's all I really needed to be like, oh, great.
Fuck.
Like if I can just get that piece of light, I'm good.
I can do the rest.
It wasn't a woe is me vibe.
It was more like the put the dirt on the grave kind of vibe.
I was going to say it sounds more inward.
Yeah.
Instead of like, I need you to woe is me.
No, no.
Woe is myself.
Yeah.
I am on my own.
Yeah.
The spikes are poking me in my own.
And I'm going to surrender to that.
And it was it was it was a passive suicidality.
I think it's what they call it because it wasn't like, oh, I'm actively I want to hurt myself.
But it was like, damn, if a car hit me right now, I probably wouldn't care.
Like that's not trying to hurt myself.
But but there was a there wasn't a will to to be alive in that way.
There was like a kind of this might actually be easier if I get taken out.
And like that's not my general disposition.
So I think, again, that's where my therapist was like, huh.
Medication.
What a wonderful therapist.
Yeah.
Well, I just want to point out, like for people who know you, who have watched your show or follow you on Instagram, you are so lively, so full of life, so joyful.
And it's always we know this now because we know history of like people who are have a lot of darkness inside don't always seem that way.
And it's really like it's it's surprising to me just sitting here hearing that from you because of what I perceive on the outside.
Yeah, that's very true.
I think, you know, you said that I was like immediately like Robin Williams.
Right.
There are these people who are who we know as these bubbly, energetic.
But if you're not and I don't know what Robin Williams is doing, but just in terms of that personality, I think if you're not and I want to put a pause in that because there could also be some deeper mental health issues.
But for my case, it's like if I'm not asking the right questions or if I go about this as I can handle this myself, the like only child syndrome of it all, the like I'm going to I'll just take care of it.
You get buried under that that eventually just isn't sustainable.
And then also there's a there's a hustling for your worth inside of it, too, that you understand that your worth and your value comes from making people happy.
And so there's a dopamine hit to that.
There's a not wanting to disappoint people.
And so you kind of lean into that as your way to feel worthy.
And it's like, oh, I don't want anyone to handle my sad like that.
Like that's that feels too scary or like I would disappoint people if I say, oh, I'm sad.
But then again, it's again, that's not sustainable.
Right. You have to be able to share with people that there are you're human.
You're funny. Yes.
You're you're silly. Yes.
But also like you get depressed and there are tragedies that happen and you should be able to experience all those things and experience them with your community, which is a lesson that I'm still a muscle.
I'm still building and luckily my community has been with me long enough that they know when I get a little too quiet, they're like, hey, what's going on?
But like when we were in our 20s, I could disappear and just like kind of not be around people.
And I think that that sometimes we have a role that we play in our like our own archetype.
It's hard to accept that you have the full range of emotions.
Right. And it's like I'm worried that if I don't take care of people.
Well, then I'm no longer worthy because this is what I'm for.
Right. This is what how I have earned my worth in my lifetime.
Yes. Yes.
And I think that a lot of people who are the life of the party when they're drinking or using whatever, then they have a hard time when if they if they get sober, that they're maybe not fun.
Yes. Yes.
Maybe no one actually wants to be around me.
Like this is how I am of value to my community.
Yeah.
And that can be a really hard wake up call for people.
Yeah. I remember Eminem talking about this when he got sober, like learning how to rap again.
When your skill is kind of hinged upon these vices and then they go away, you really reckon with your with yourself, which is, you know, important work to do, but terrifying work to do.
Yeah.
As well.
I the reason why I started drinking was because I didn't know how to be in public.
Yeah.
I am very much up here, hyper intellectual.
Every conversation I want to have has to be about philosophy and like the society and how it moves and people at the bar don't give a shit about that sort of stuff.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Where are you going to go?
So I might as well start getting wasted.
Right.
So I started drinking at 16 and it just kept going until I got 30 and 28 ish and I became a Buddhist and I was like, all right, we got to cut back on this.
But you made a point about the kind of mask that you wear and the root word for personality is persona and that's Latin.
It literally means mask.
It literally means mask persona.
Yeah.
And we wear these masks every single day.
Yeah.
In our lives.
I even now as a sober person, when I approach places, there's some version of me that feels like I still need to be the centered, calm, cool one who can see things clear.
And if shit goes crazy, I can take care and handle everything.
And usually until then, it's like, all right, let me just chill and just let these folks do whatever they got to do until it's time.
As helpful as that is, obviously, because my job is telling people what to do.
Yeah.
There is a part of me that sometimes forgets that with that mask, to follow the metaphor, comes the acne because you wear the mask for too long.
Yeah.
The sweat on your skin.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And the other day, one of our kids, we were sitting down, just the two of us, and they asked me about you.
And I told, they said, tell me how mom is when no one else is around.
That's what I asked.
And I thought that was a great question.
That's a great question.
And I said, she tells me a lot about what her thoughts and her strategies are, and she's also really funny.
And then our kids said, well, I talk to mom when I have stuff on my mind, and mom talks to you, who do you talk to?
Wow.
And I was like...
Intuitive kid.
Yeah, and I was a little floored too.
I was like, well, how do I tell this kid that I'm living this mask sometime in my life?
I feel like I need to...
I'll tell Foster pretty much everything, but there's still a part of me that's like, I don't even sometimes assume to tell you stuff.
Because I need to be the one that has to be prepared and provide and be ready and be strong and this and that and whatnot.
And I've gone through all the wild shit in my life, so I should know the answer, and I should be chill, and I almost died, and blah, blah, blah.
And again, sometimes you forget to take this mask off.
You are in a capacity right now where for the past, what, five or six years, your brand is growing and growing and growing.
Do you feel like every day that when you go out, you have to be the Brandon Kyle Goodman that everybody sees online?
I wrestle with that.
I think at first I did, and it stopped me from going out.
Because it wasn't that I felt like I did, it was that I would go out, and I would be living life, and then people would recognize me.
And then I'd be like, oh, shit, like, what have I been saying?
What have I been doing?
And then, like, I would go out to parties, and we're drinking or whatever, and it would be like three in the morning, and somebody's like, oh, my God, I took a photo with you.
And I'm like, oh.
I had to be on.
You're like, oh.
And just like that.
So just like prevent it.
So yeah, the feeling of having to be on because I recognize that somebody feels something for me parasocially, whatever it is, and this is their one chance to meet me.
And so I want to make sure that they have a good experience.
And that's just, like, kind of my politic is just, like, I know what it is to meet people that you look up to, you admire, or that mean something to you, and how devastating that moment is when they're not kind.
Which everyone's allowed to be however they are because we're human, but I understand that it feels harder, you know?
Like, you're like, oh, my God, I look up to this person, and they wear a fucking dick to me.
It feels, it sucks.
So I think I'm conscious of that and want to show my best self.
At the same time, I'm like, I need to be able to be a person who has a lot of emotions.
So I think that's why, as the brand has grown, a lot of it has been showing people exactly who I am.
You know who said it?
It was Britney Spears.
Yes.
There was like-
Call her.
Call the queen.
Back in her in.
I remember there was some interviews she did, I think, before, like, her toxic era.
And she was just, everyone was, like, pressuring her to be role models for everyone.
And she was like, I'm not, I don't need to be a role model.
It was her vibe.
And I was like, yeah, like, she's a person.
Like, she gets to live and explore and become.
She shouldn't have to be beholden to not do certain things because she's a role model for your kid.
That's your job, not hers.
And so I think I was like, oh, I don't want to ever get locked into a persona that doesn't fit.
And so messy is on purpose.
It's like, this isn't perfection.
Like, there are lots of layers and shades and I get to be a full human.
And yes, I'm on Lexapro.
Yes, I fucked that thing up.
Yes, I did that thing well.
And so my hope is that the people that I'm attracting then give me grace if I'm not at my best.
The change you want to see in the world.
Right, right.
And so in that way, it's gotten a little easier to not have a full mask on because I think people go, yeah, you take care of yourself.
You look like you're tired.
That's all right.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Somebody, Whitney Uland has a show called How to Be Famous.
Yeah.
And she talks about people become famous for a whole variety, in a whole variety of personas.
Yeah.
Can you step into the persona that you can sustain?
Yes.
Yes.
Because you could be, you could go, you could be famous in a whole bunch of ways.
Absolutely.
But if you can pick the one that you, you can sustain and you can be authentic in, you can actually live that life.
Absolutely.
If that's something that is a desire.
Yeah.
Some people get famous for being, behaving badly.
I'm sure that gets exhausting.
Yeah, exactly.
Like you show up, it's like crack a bottle.
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
No.
That's the person who gets sober and then they're like, who am I?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think Chris Farley had that same problem where he always was, he'd go to, you know,
any party and they expected him to like jump through a table.
Yeah.
And he's wild, crazy, big guy who's just ready to, like you said, drink up a whole thing
of Jack Daniels or whatever.
And it just exhausted him and it burned him out way too fast.
Yeah.
I would assume that is, I would assume that was probably terrible for most people in, in,
in all celebrity pop culture up until, and still now, but up until the last five or
10 years or so, because it's, it's only recently that we started celebrating celebrities
getting sober.
Yeah.
Like Molly Cyrus posted some years ago getting sober and I forget which magazine it was like
Rolling Stone or something posted just that, that she's five years sober, three years sober,
whatever, just on their Instagram.
And everybody was applauding that.
We didn't have that.
Yeah.
It's kind of interesting.
Leading up until five years ago.
Yeah.
Fame is really, the celebrity culture is interesting because I think about the boxes that those celebs,
especially like the nineties, early two thousands were in there, there, we weren't celebrating
their humanity that they really did have to like now our culture is built off of be yourself,
some version of it.
But that time it was like, be a very specific thing.
And if you weren't, I think about Whitney Houston a lot about this, like she was really trapped
in this perfection that she was, I think spending her life trying to break out.
She's like, I'm a girl from Newark.
She was so rough around the edges.
She was so rough.
But she had to be this like polished, elegant thing that, yes, that's part of who she is.
But like, there was another side that we didn't want, if you will.
And so, and I think it ultimately, you know, led to her spiral.
You can take that out to anybody, regardless of fame.
Like what is the role you serve in your little community and your family, which there are some
family dynamics that are handed, that are put on people.
Like you are the one who saves us.
And how can we choose an authentic version of ourselves that is sustainable in all of our
affairs, in our career, in our life, in our personal life?
Like if we recognize another people that you contain multitudes, you can be this and that
and tired and on Lexapro and hilarious and also sad today.
You know, all of those things are available and, you know, we should have a grace.
Like, yes, absolutely.
We can ask that of ourselves too.
We adopt the roles that have been placed on us.
We adopt the ideologies that have been placed on us.
And if you, I always say like, if you don't ever question these things, you're actually
not living your life.
You're living somebody else's life that they handed to you.
I always use an example of a nose.
I used to think my nose was so big.
And like, I wanted, like I was ever going to get a plastic surgery, it's going to be on
my nose.
And then I realized that that came from like some kid that was six telling me my nose was
big.
And I was carrying that into my adulthood.
It's like, if you never question those things from the playground, they end up running your
life.
And so I think what we all need to figure out what roles we're playing is to ask the question.
I always say it's like disruptive curiosity, like intentionally asking questions that interrupt
your generational cycles, your internal narratives and your personal habits.
It's your messy GPS.
Otherwise you're being steered by a different GPS that will ultimately have you wake up one
day and be like, is this my life?
Like I did, I didn't choose any of this.
I did what my mom said.
I did what society said.
I did what the community said.
I never actually, I made it look like I was in control, but I was actually not.
I've actually been a pawn this whole time.
That's what you say in your book.
Who would I be if society never got its hands on me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a huge question and like cannot answer that in one sitting.
Right.
But it is like, those are the questions to begin asking.
Like what of these things I always like when I was talking about coming out as non-binary,
you know, I bought up there.
If you go to my closet, there are a bunch of heels that I no longer wear.
But like it was important for me to know, like, do I like heels?
I was just told as a boy, you don't wear heels.
But like, do I want to wear heels?
Do I like heels?
Try them the fuck on.
Like, it's like these things that you're told, oh, you shouldn't do because you're a boy,
because you're a girl, because you're gay.
Try it.
And you might discover, yeah, girl, I fucking hate a heel.
Like, not for me.
Or you might discover, oh my God, this unlocked something in me.
And I do love this thing.
But being willing to ask those questions and being willing to say, what if this is actually
mine?
And what if this has just been passed on to me that I've adopted?
Because that's what everyone was doing.
Or that's what, you know, that was the fear that was drilled into me.
I love the phrase disruptive curiosity.
Yeah.
That is fantastic.
Every time we have a thought in our mind, therapists teach you this, meditation teaches
you this.
You observe it instead of just become the thing itself.
And you start watching it.
And then the next action could be asking this curious question of, what are you actually
trying to tell me here?
Fear, anger, worry.
What are you trying to convey to me actually?
Yeah.
I fundamentally think that all the demons within us are just angels that are unheard.
Yeah.
And it's like the little kid who just keeps tugging at your thing, your pant leg, you know?
You turn around and say, okay, what can I help you with?
What do you want?
And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, they're not, they don't really give a shit about
the trick they did, which is just jumping up and down.
They just want you to look at them.
They want to be seen a little bit.
They want to be recognized.
And that's what's going on within us as well.
That same, you just turned to that little boy who told you about what you feel about your
nose.
Yeah.
And in return, instead of saying like, I can't listen to you right now, or whatever you're
saying is true, it's, hang on, what are you actually saying here?
Yeah.
You feel isolated.
You feel lonely because of whatever reason.
Couldn't agree more in that sense.
I want to talk about the destigmatizing sex.
Yeah.
Talk about it.
I mean, where was your fuck it moment with destigmatizing sex publicly?
You know, I have to credit working on Big Mouth for that because, you know, that show is so
about sex and puberty.
And I remember before I got on the show, I was shooting Modern Love and a PA was like, you
should watch this show.
I don't know why she thought I should watch.
Probably.
No, I know.
She's probably talking some shit.
She's like, you would probably love this show.
So I watched it and I was like, oh my God, this is so healing.
It's a nasty show in the best way.
But it was like, oh, this is healing.
Like, I'm reexamining things from puberty that, again, I just adopted and never asked
questions about or never thought about.
And the show is allowing you the chance to reexamine it and be like, wait, what were your
actual feelings about that?
What is the truth of this thing?
As opposed to what you made up in your teenage brain or now in your adulthood living.
But when you, as a writer on that show, you spend eight hours a day talking about your
sex life and you're talking about puberty and talking about family.
And so it becomes very, like, normal to the point where I would go to other places and
start speaking and be like, oh, oh, everyone's clutching their pearls.
Right.
Oh, well, my bad.
But, you know, but at work, it's just that that's just what we do.
And then when 2020 happened and I asked people, like, to tell me something good or messy on
my stories and everyone was stuck at COVID or stuck inside because of the pandemic, they
were horny.
And I was like, okay, then I'll just respond to this.
And I'll respond to it without judgment or shame in the same way we do in the Big Mouth
Room.
And there was such a response to it that I was like, okay, like, there's a need here.
There's a trauma here that we all collectively are suffering from.
And I think just talking about it might help.
And I think it was the fact that it was helping myself and others that made me go, fuck it.
Like, if it's helping, then it's worth it.
Then it was kind of like, I don't really care about the respectability politics around it
if it's actually doing some good.
Yeah.
Right.
And it's been difficult.
I'm sure you know as well.
Like, talking about it is not easy in the commercial sense of things.
Girl.
It's like.
It's hard.
It's so difficult.
It's so challenging.
Nobody wants to touch it still.
It's like.
You're like.
It's every.
Y'all got people.
Like, the Calvin Klein ad.
Like, when.
What's his name?
And it's here.
Like, his dick is swinging.
Like, what do we.
But y'all don't want to talk about it.
But you don't want to talk about it.
I don't understand.
I'm baffled by so much of this.
I'm like, wait a minute.
All of you are doing this.
And everybody is in agreement on this.
But then the moment that someone says one thing.
We're like.
Oh, we don't talk about Bruno.
Like, what are you.
What are we talking about?
You know sex sells.
It's everything.
It sells.
It's everything.
So then why are we having this conversation?
But the moment you want to talk about it.
Like, what?
You're like, okay.
Everyone's in a bikini right now.
Or like, keto rivalry is massive.
But like, when you want to like have a conversation about it.
Yeah.
Or about your life inside of it.
It's too much.
Girls get clutch.
Yeah.
They get all tightened up.
Yeah.
And I mean.
I'm in a similar area where you were.
I went so far to the other end of like saying.
Fuck it.
Let me see how.
Where are my boundaries?
Yes.
Where are my barriers for my own self?
Where are they?
And they.
I crossed them a lot of times.
But on the way back.
Is when you start to realize.
Oh yeah.
That was very helpful for me.
1,000%.
Oh.
That moment that I stood up for myself against this person.
Who wanted to pay me money to sleep with him.
Yeah.
And I said no to it.
Actually led me to being more secure in who I am as an individual.
1,000%.
And.
At the same time.
Somebody.
That will empower them.
Yes.
For sex work.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
And can we have this conversation about these things?
Can it be normal?
Yeah.
I think that that's why I love talking about sex.
Because I always say sex is the candy.
It's the way in.
Really what we're talking about is your identity.
Because you can't talk about who you are.
You can't talk about sex without talking about who you are.
Right.
Talking about where you come from, your class, your religion, your ethnicity.
Like it all informs how you show up in the bedroom.
And so like it's like for me people like talking about the salacious parts of sex.
But like that is a bridge to then say who the fuck are you love?
I think that's where it gets scary.
It's like when you, when I think the content that seems to work is like when it's just, you know, sex talk to be sex talk and then it becomes this thing on the fringe.
But the moment you try to be like, there's heart here, that's where it actually becomes more salacious for people.
Okay.
And maybe scary.
Scary.
Yeah.
That's usually what I find.
Yeah.
There's a scaredness about it.
We watched DTF St. Louis.
Oh.
And I don't know if you saw it or not.
No, I haven't watched it.
Oh, it's a phenomenal show.
Phenomenal show.
But there's one character in there who is very sex positive.
Is like always on like roller skates and like has this whole thing.
And he said a quote, and I'm going to say this quote wrong, but he said the sexualization of it.
He said, they're all around us.
They just keep it behind their closed doors.
Yes.
And I'm paraphrasing that because that's not exactly how he said it.
But we all have that sort of version of us in there to be understood.
It's not exactly my next door neighbor is exactly the way I am.
But I guarantee there's a freeness there that there's a good chance they're trying to hold together and not let out.
And I'm not going to force somebody to do that.
But at the same time, why are we doing that?
It's like, how do you think we got here though?
What the hell?
We all here because somebody cooked.
You put light on it.
And then it's like everything.
So you put light on it.
You make things legal.
Then it can be safe.
Yes.
Right?
And so how we can actually talk about it.
And you were talking about recently about Doxy and about PrEP.
We can actually do things safely.
We're actually talking about how and the what and the why and all of the things.
Can we not keep it all behind closed doors?
That's how we take care of each other is by talking.
Because you think about like I've been reflecting on my sex life and it's just kind of crazy that no one teaches you about it.
And what they do teach you is just put on a condom or abstinence.
But there's no like talk about pleasure or foreplay or like and it's like oh then of course we're all having bad sex.
Because why would you be good at something that nobody is talking about?
And it just feels like a disservice to not make that information available.
Not just like the fun parts of it but also like the missteps.
You know the like oh I tried this and this is why it didn't work for me.
Or you might like this but you won't like it.
Like navigating those things I think is I've been figuring it out in my now late 30s.
But it's like this should be information that you have in your 20s and your teens honestly.
Kids are fucking in their teens.
And it's just like come on.
Let's talk about it.
Exactly.
I lost my virginity at 14.
Oh my gosh.
And in my mind I know.
Think about how old our kids are.
I know.
I'm aware.
I'm really aware.
I'm 100% aware of it.
But that doesn't I'm not necessarily an outlier.
In elementary school we all were nasty.
Yeah.
I don't know if it was the same for you or you grew up around or what area you grew up in.
But we were filthy.
First grade.
Second grade.
We talked the wildest shit.
Oh yeah.
Everyone would talk their shit.
Of course.
But they know what they're saying.
But it's like.
They don't know what they're saying.
They don't talk about it.
But who else are we going to talk to?
Right.
And now to your point we're getting 10 years of incorrect information.
Yes.
Over and over and over.
Repetitively told to us.
My brother told me this.
And you're just like no.
We don't want to have that conversation.
I mean.
It's actually not protecting anyone.
It's actually harming people.
Because they're not armed with the actual information to then make a conscious decision.
To me it's the same where like we're in like Europe you can drink when you're younger.
And like their relationship to us is like wow y'all are crazy.
Because we go get eight turn 18 go to college and then get like go crazy.
Because it's never been part of our culture as opposed to somebody actually introducing it to you around the dinner table.
I mean let's talk about this thing.
What are your feelings?
You're hitting puberty.
What like this is what a hard on is.
This is where you're clit.
You know like how do we talk about these things in a normal way so that when you are off on your own you're not bumbling around in the dark.
And can have actually more satisfactory experiences because you know how to advocate for yourself.
A friend of mine and I will shout her out.
Her name is Pamela Samuelson.
She teaches a sex ed class.
The sex ed class that no one else teaches basically.
And she teaches it with tweens and teens.
And she teaches queer sex and straight sex and everything.
Like a really full perspective on sex.
Yeah like a holistic.
Maybe.
Yeah.
I haven't we haven't taken it yet.
Our kids haven't taken it yet.
But I know her.
Yes.
And I know she teaches a class also called Take Back the Speculum.
Where people are actually in groups looking at their own vulvas and vaginas.
Wow.
Incredible.
Like how often do you look at that?
Yes.
Yes.
She is amazing at what she does.
But yeah this is I'll put her link in the show notes just because I think everyone should know about her.
Because what they're teaching in school is what they're limited to be able to teach.
Right.
Government standards.
Yes.
Yeah.
And parents have a really hard time trying to figure out how to have this conversation.
And also our kids at least you know our kids every time I try to bring it up and we are very sex positive.
But they're like oh mom no I don't want to talk about it with you.
But they do want to talk about it.
Right.
They do want to talk about it.
And all the information at school from the school is misinformation and also from the kids is misinformation.
And they end that.
Like they're going on the internet talking to these like you know Manosphere bros and you're just like no.
No.
No.
No.
Yeah.
We want to go into kid conversation.
Yeah please.
But I do want to say one really great thing I love about living in LA in particular is the billboards and the commercials about things like the HIV medication.
Yeah.
And doxy and PrEP.
And it is becoming more and more visual and accessible to us.
Yes.
And removing the stigma of HIV for example.
Like the lifespan of someone with HIV and not is a month.
The last time I checked.
Yeah.
On average than someone who's not positive.
And then there's commercials I'm seeing for it.
Unlike ABC in the morning talking about get your shot.
Get your medication.
Get whatever it is.
And I'm like this is the way we should be starting.
One thousand percent.
One hundred percent.
One thousand percent.
I just love saying that.
One thousand percent.
I want to say that part because that I know this is going to be heard outside of Los Angeles.
And just to start the conversation of that modern science medicine to go back to what you're saying.
It's here for us.
It's here to work.
And we have progress.
We got to have the conversations about it.
Yes.
Agreed.
So boxes down.
I'm going to take a little pivot for a second.
Yes, please.
And I want to share with you something because we have a mutual friend in Megan Oppenheimer.
Oh my God.
Really?
Uh-huh.
And I asked Megan to say a couple words about you because I wanted people to understand like who you really are.
Oh my God.
So I'm going to read that to you now.
We love Megan.
She's the creator and showrunner of Tell Me Live.
Yes.
So Brandon has always had the ability to see people clearly and still love them at their worst.
They are a gravitational force, someone everyone is drawn to, but they refuse to let anyone else disappear in their orbit.
They have a radar for the person on the edge of the room, the one who is shy or scared or out of place, and they pull them in without making a show of it.
Brandon doesn't judge their friends, but does hold them to a higher standard.
If I've accidentally made them sound too serious, please know that they are also the silliest, most lovably chaotic human with the heart of a 12-year-old musical theater kid.
Brandon is obviously also a wildly talented performer, writer, and teacher, but that almost feels beside the point.
The real magic of Brandon is that they've built a life out of making people feel understood.
They are also shockingly, devastatingly sexy, which isn't the most important thing to mention here, but it would feel dishonest not to.
It's incredible.
It's incredible.
Oh, my God.
So I love that description of you.
I knew she would have amazing things to say about you.
Oh, my God.
I want to frame that.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you.
Yes.
I love Megan.
I just, I love this making people feel understood, and that feels so clear from everything I know about you and your book and everything.
It's like, that is your mission or through line.
I don't know how conscious it is for you, but it feels so like, no wonder everybody wants to be around you, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, no, that's there.
It's like, I want people to feel seen and less alone, you know?
Like, I don't, I think being somebody who grew up feeling on the outskirts, I don't want other people to feel that.
Yeah.
I think a lot of my work, it's about, you're not alone, and I can do that by sharing what I'm going through.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Also, I wanted to dive in a little bit into choosing to be child-free.
Mm-hmm.
And this is true, right?
Yeah.
You are a husband, and you have decided not to have children.
Yeah.
Please talk about this.
I think it is a really beautiful decision.
And I love intentionality.
Yeah.
And so, can you talk about, like, coming to that decision, and if you've been up against anything, you know, regarding it?
Yeah.
I came to the decision in 2023.
Up until then, I was, we were certain that we were going to have kids.
Like, you know, our marriage was not built around it, but, like, there was always expectation that there would be kids and a house, and that's what we were kind of working towards.
The beautiful thing about our marriage has been that there's been a lot of questions asked inside of it.
And we've really given each other the space to become who we are.
And so, like, inside of our relationship, I came out of sign binary and, like, changed my pronouns or expanded my pronouns.
And he's gone from being a teacher to now a therapist.
And, like, our careers have shifted.
We've just, like, always said, yes, go, go, go.
I went to Amsterdam and took a trip, and I was having this, like, tension in myself and in the relationship, too, but I couldn't understand what it was.
And so, you know, I went on this solo trip because it was, like, I just need to, like, hear my own thoughts.
And, like, on the day three or day four, I think I just started asking myself a bunch of questions.
One of my questions was, like, do I want to be with my husband?
And we had just gotten these tattoos, 111, because it's the day that we got married, and mine is in his handwriting, and his, on his is my handwriting.
And I remember looking at it and, like, weeping because I was, like, oh, my God, I'm so grateful that I have him.
And then I was, like, I don't want kids.
And it just, like, came out of me.
I was, like, oh, I don't want kids.
And I started, like, crying because, again, like, I have always thought when I was little, I had stuffed animals.
And, like, they were my students, and I was going to have kids.
And it was this part of my identity that I had so assumed I would see to fruition.
And to say it out loud that I didn't want them was shocking, but also felt so true.
I love kids.
But I think also going through my own stuff with my mother, you know, we're 15 years, no contact, and it's around my queerness.
And, like, losing my grandmother, who was very much a second mother, and losing my godfather and my godmother all around, like, the same time period.
I think I developed a reverence for parenthood that I didn't have before.
I had this conversation with Lena Waithe on my podcast, and she said there's a difference between wanting to have kids and wanting to be a parent.
And that is so clarifying that I think we're not taught to think about it in our culture.
People just kind of have kids.
And then we as adults, this millennial generation, are in therapy because of our parents.
We're like, all of us are in therapy talking about our moms and our dads, and whether they're there or not.
Like, my dad wasn't around, and that absence also is very big.
The parent that I want to be, I don't have the capacity in this lifetime to be.
And that was really solidified.
I can remember before, after Amsterdam, a friend of mine who I love, who's an incredible director, married, has two kids.
And he was saying that his daughter, who I think is like around five, was being bullied at school.
And so he was having a hard time with that because it was activating him being bullied as a kid.
And so he was in therapy to navigate his feelings around it so that he didn't put that on her while also navigating her emotions around being bullied.
And I was like, that is the parent I want to be.
I don't have the capacity to be that parent.
I'm like, I think I'm wounded in a way that I need to take care of myself, that it would almost be a disservice to my child to have them.
Because I don't think I'd be able to be present in the way that I want to be.
That was part of it.
The other piece of it, which we don't talk about a lot, or I don't hear people talk about a lot, is that like, my husband is white, but like, we've always said, like, the kids be black.
It's like, I'm not raising a white kid.
So we won't have a black kid.
And that's what, but it's like, oh, what is the reality of raising a black kid in this country?
What is the reality of raising a black kid with a white husband?
We watched this documentary, W. Camo Bell, about mixed kids.
What I took away from it is that the kids, the parents all expressed, like black parent, white parent, that there's something that our kid is going through that we don't understand because we are not mixed.
But the kid made sense of it because, well, I'm part of my dad and I'm part of my mom.
For us as a gay couple, the idea would be to like intentionally have mixed kids, like choose my sperm with a white egg or vice versa.
And I was like, I don't know if I feel comfortable bringing a child into the world that I don't understand their experience and I'm not going to be able to help them with this part of their experience just so that we can say they're pieces of us.
And so like these little things happen where it's like, I don't have the answers for this.
And I think I need to have answers for this before the child is here.
Like it can't be an experiment.
Like this is a life.
So when all those things kind of stacked on top of each other, for me, and by the way, like everyone can make their own decision, but for me it was like I'm not prepared for this in this lifetime.
I think I'd be a great parent.
I think I'd be an adult parent.
But the parent that I want to be requires a different set of circumstances that I don't currently have the capacity for.
But then the other piece of this too is like, am I having a kid for my legacy?
I don't need to continue the family lineage.
I can have my legacy in other ways.
It doesn't have to be put on this child who really should not be focused on my legacy, should be focused on what they want to do in the world.
That part's always felt really selfish to me to hear families say like, I'm going to make this child to be a version of me.
Yes, yes.
And it's my stuff.
Yes.
Or the last name.
You got to keep the name going.
I'm the last male Cardona on the side of my family.
And very early I was like, y'all fault.
Not my fault.
Yeah.
Too bad.
Figure it out.
I'm not going to live your life.
Like that wasn't.
Why are you putting this on me?
Why is that my responsibility?
And so there's also part of me that feels like I'm breaking a generational cycle by doing this.
You know, my grandmother had my mom without her dad around.
And my mom had me without my dad around.
And I'm not questioning my capability to be a parent.
It's my desire to be a parent that I started to question.
Yeah.
And it's also because of the way the queer community, you know, a lot of the queer community
has to make this as an intentional choice.
And a lot of people in sort of cis-hetero relationships, they don't even question it.
You know, it's just sort of expected of them.
I think a lot of heterosexual couples face a lot of scrutiny from their families for choosing
not to have children.
Yeah.
But don't we, don't we, aren't there plenty of people in this planet?
Plenty.
Like I don't understand what everyone's.
A metric function.
There's so many.
Plenty.
If the population goes down, wouldn't that be a good thing?
Like I don't, I really don't.
I cannot fathom why people are like, we must continue the race.
Like we're not in danger.
I think we got a lot of people.
There's so many people.
And there are a lot of people who like need parents too.
Yeah.
That was, we also thought about like, well, maybe we'd adopt older at some point.
I think also like admitting that like, I'm not meant for the baby face.
Like I, that's not, that's not for me.
I lucked out in this sense.
I met Foster.
Foster had two kids already.
Yeah.
And like, I love these kids.
Yeah.
I adore them.
Yeah.
I ended up getting like the luckiest part of it because I got them at seven and 11.
So I missed the whole baby side and like, no sleepless nights or nothing.
I'm like, all right, what are we doing today?
Yeah.
A little guilty to feel about, but still, nonetheless, I'm the same.
I'm like, oh, I would not, I'm not, I'm, I'm not meant for that newborn phase.
Yeah.
And I think there are a lot of women in particular who don't ask themselves all the questions
that you ask yourself.
And men too, you know, what society puts on us is that we should do this.
And that also that our maternal and motherly instincts will just kick in once the baby's
here.
1,000%.
Yeah.
And as a doula and when I'm working with people in postpartum, that is not everybody's experience.
Yeah.
And, you know, I know people who are like, I'm not sure I should have had kids.
And nobody wants to say that out loud because of course you can love your kids at the same
time.
1,000%.
As having this feeling of like, I maybe did this out of what was expected of me.
For other reasons.
And I didn't really sit with, you know, am I willing to give up so much of my autonomy
and freedom for other beings?
Am I willing to like be a caretaker for 18 to 22 years, whatever, you know, it takes.
And the people who are like, this is my calling.
This is what I'm here for.
Power to you.
Yes.
Amazing.
But that is not everybody.
And that's not everybody.
And then if you get into that situation and then you feel, oh, this maybe wasn't for
me or what have I done or whatever, then you don't tell anybody that.
We keep that in the darkness.
Yes.
Because how dare we say that out loud.
Right.
And, you know, because again, it doesn't take anything away from loving the children.
Multiple truths get to coexist.
Being a parent, having children is one thing and being a parent is something else.
Different thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny now that I'm so open about being childless.
People now, I do hear more like, I'm terrified.
Or like as a culture, we keep these things secret.
And so it looks, it looks fun on TV, right?
Like half hour sitcom.
It's like everything's paid for.
It's romanticized.
Yeah.
It's romanticized.
But in the reality of it, no one's actually said, oh, this was hard.
Especially like your parent is not going to tell you, oh, I'm going to suck me.
I don't want that.
So who tells you that like, what are the questions you should be asking yourself before you make
this decision?
What are the things that you might want to consider?
What is the reality of this versus the romanticness?
And are you set up?
Are you prepared for this, for this commitment?
And I would say also, we need people like you and your husband.
We need people like you, Cesar, like who are child free in their current, like biologically,
but who are members, want to be members of the community and of parents and aunts and uncles
and whatever to these children, because I don't want to do it alone.
1000%.
And that's how we're supposed to be, right?
Yeah, we're supposed to be.
We should be.
Traditionally.
Traditionally.
Historically, we were that way.
Historically, yeah.
We're supposed to be, it's supposed to be a community effort, not this like individual
situation.
I live four minutes away from my brother and he has no kids.
And I'm like, pop in.
Here we go.
Come on.
Tap it, love.
Tap it, love.
I'm out.
Come on.
And he's so great about it.
And like Cesar says a lot, you know, he can bring a fresh tank to the table.
Yes.
When the other of us, there's three parents, four parents altogether.
The other three of us are a little bit like tapped out, you know?
He can be like, I'm ready.
I've had the weekend to myself and I'm in the bed center for a few hours and meditating.
So this goes right back.
I'm asking you this more personal or anything else for me, because I'm really trying to learn
this on my own.
Like I said before, I'm very intellectual.
I'm always very like, what's the philosophy?
What's the thing to dig?
And what's the spiritual and whatever.
Sometimes I know, and most times I know, I need to find more humor.
I need more humor.
I'm light and I'm breezy.
I'm like, yeah, fine, whatever, like a hippie kind of Buddhist kind of dude.
But you have a good habit of finding the humor in almost everything.
What's your mindset?
What is the, is there a mantra you hold on to for yourself that even in the worst things,
you find some, some, something funny about it?
Do you, what's the approach to that?
It's funny.
Cause I thought it's like, I think it's like when you experience a lot of pain, you got
to laugh to not stay in that.
So it's just kind of a, a natural default setting that I think my friends and I take,
which is like, okay, laugh.
Like this shit is hard.
Like this sucks.
But like, can we make a joke about it?
Um, like my, my best friend, his mom died a year ago and his father died, their father died
a couple of years before that.
And sometimes they'll make, you know, jokes.
It's just like, yeah, like, well, like this sucks, but let's find some humor in that.
It, it, it, it's healing.
I find laughter.
That's why I love comedians.
I think that laughter is healing.
It's like the, it truly is the best medicine.
And so I do look for it wherever I can while also keeping the balance of, cause I think
that some people use humor to, um, avoid.
Yes.
And so I try to watch that, that the humor is not there to, to avoid something or to hide
from something.
I spot that in people sometimes.
That's not the humor that I want to pick up.
That's not the one that I want.
Not a judgment on them.
You're joking, you're like, you're like, these are a heart moment.
Something's going on.
Yeah.
Hug me.
Yeah.
I know you're here.
I see you.
We're here.
Do it.
Yeah.
But no, I like to, when the moment is there, I do love to find the laughter.
I think it's a politic.
It's, it's, it is part of the healing.
Like the, the soft talks, the heartful talks are important, but can we laugh too?
Cause life is silly as fuck.
So fucking silly.
It's silly.
You're like, that happened?
That could, couldn't possibly happen.
Not to mention we made all this shit up.
We made this up.
I don't know.
It's all like a construct.
Oh.
What?
Was that picture?
I think I already said this, maybe on the show or not, but that picture of like, there's
like the, the town and then it zooms out to the country and it shows the planet and it
shows the solar system.
It shows the galaxy.
Then it shows the universe.
And then it's a big hand of God saying, pointing at the earth and saying, don't masturbate.
Like, like, like we made it all the fuck up.
It's a little wild.
Yeah, I know.
What helps also is documentaries.
You watch these documentaries.
I watched the Manosphere documentary.
I'm bringing that up again, but there's a documentary about, and it is devastating, but also hilarious
to me.
Cause just like, this is so gay.
You are all homosexual.
It's so gay.
This is so gay.
Which documentary is it?
It's a, what's, I think it's called Manosphere.
It's on Netflix.
Okay.
This journalist finds a bunch of like the top like Manosphere dudes.
Yes.
Gay.
It's so, I only, ironically, I only watch baseball.
I don't watch any other sport, but I'm like, oh, these are, they're gay.
This is gay.
This is all gay.
Why are those fans so tired?
And why?
Why are we gonna stand behind each other?
Come on.
If you, if you bat this way and that way, you're a switch hitter.
That's the way.
If you hit the guy, the guy who's pitching you, if you hit and it goes far, he took him
deep.
That's the phrase.
Homosexuals.
These were, these were, I think a bunch of closeted gays made up sports.
Constantly.
Constantly.
I think sports are gay.
We should, I need to reclaim it.
I need to reclaim sports.
They're gay.
Yeah.
Oh my God, Brandon.
We love you.
I love y'all.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you for having me.
And thanks for sharing your wisdom with our audience.
Yes.
Thank you all.
And as always, please be kind to yourself.
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Beauty in the Break is created and hosted by Foster Wilson and Cesar Cardona.
Our executive producer is Glenn Milley.
Original music by Cesar & the Clew.